Wolves vs LGDs: future of LGD breeds, what is best and why?

Discussion of the training, use, and management of guard dogs, guard llamas, guard donkeys, guard goldfish, etc.
lovetree
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Re: Wolves vs LGDs: future of LGD breeds, what is best and why?

Postby lovetree » Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:37 am

I vaguely remeber reading about that photo a while back, I thought that someone said that is was a hoax of sorts...meaning, a very short man actually holding up the wolf.
I dont know one way or the other.
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Janet McNally
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Re: Wolves vs LGDs: future of LGD breeds, what is best and why?

Postby Janet McNally » Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:14 pm

Paul sent that to me for the purpose of showing how large the grey wolf of the Rockies is. This is the same species we have here in MN. Since an adult male can get as large as 150 lbs, the photo does depict accurately that the wolf is as large as a man. Ok, the men in this house are more like 160 to 220, but close enough! A mature wolf on his hind legs can look a 6 foot tall man in the eye (based on a local collection of the same species.)

There is a stuffed adult wolf at the Rock Creek gas station on the east side of hwy 35 x 70 that is every bit this large, and live grey wolves on display in Ely Minnesota.

my only thought about the photo is that this wolf was well fed. The wild wolves I've seen are often a bit spindly and pot bellied due to their large meals less frequently, albeit every bit as tall. I would say 80-125 lbs is a more typical weight here.

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Re: Wolves vs LGDs: future of LGD breeds, what is best and why?

Postby Bill Fosher » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:37 am

There was a report of a 200-pound wolf taken during the Idaho hunt, which I am certain was exaggerated. There was a time, 10,000 years ago, when dire wolves weighing that much roamed North America, but unless this hunter went back in a time machine, killed one, and then came back, it seems unlikely that there is such a beast.

My sense is that these reports and photos are either doctored or exaggerated to instill fear in the public and justify the hunt. Not that the hunt isn't justified -- I don't have enough information to form and opinion one way or the other.
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Re: Wolves vs LGDs: future of LGD breeds, what is best and why?

Postby Janet McNally » Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:52 am

Bill Fosher wrote: Not that the hunt isn't justified -- I don't have enough information to form and opinion one way or the other.


haven't read the Beast in the Garden yet eh?

Janet
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Darroll Grant
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Re: Wolves vs LGDs: future of LGD breeds, what is best and why?

Postby Darroll Grant » Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:40 am

I haven't read 'The Beast in the Garden', but mountain lions and coyotes are showing up in local residential areas where they were not seen previously. At the rate of increase in 10 years we will have a a number of human health and safety issues.
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Re: Wolves vs LGDs: future of LGD breeds, what is best and why?

Postby Janet McNally » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:20 am

I really strongly recommend it for everyone. It will definitely shape how you view our wildlife management tools and the impact they have on animal behavior. It should be required reading for all wildlife management people and all legislators.

Janet
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Re: Wolves vs LGDs: future of LGD breeds, what is best and why?

Postby Muleflock » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:20 am

An excerpt from a review written about the book kinda sums it up for me.

"Never before have so many people lived so close to so many potentially dangerous animals while simultaneously lacking the desire to exterminate them."

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Re: Wolves vs LGDs: future of LGD breeds, what is best and why?

Postby Janet McNally » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:30 am

:? I would not say that sums up the book at all. it is much more complex than that.
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Re: Wolves vs LGDs: future of LGD breeds, what is best and why?

Postby Muleflock » Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:37 am

Janet McNally wrote::? I would not say that sums up the book at all. it is much more complex than that.


Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was referring to Darroll's comment, not the book necessarily.

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Re: Wolves vs LGDs: future of LGD breeds, what is best and why?

Postby Darroll Grant » Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:21 am

I have found it interesting how fast opinions change when the city folks get directly involved (coyote eats a pet, threatens a child or a coon tears insulation from under the house). Wildlife are nice to watch until they infringe upon my income, create personal property damage or threaten my safety.

I consider predator losses similar to human theft except the animal is just trying to survive with the least amount of effort.
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Re: Wolves vs LGDs: future of LGD breeds, what is best and why?

Postby Muleflock » Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:30 pm

What I find interesting is that wildlife management seems to be unwilling to accept the fact that hunting predators selects for ones that are fearful of humans and less likely to risk detection by humans and removes from the gene pool those that are willing to confront humans. It's not really rocket science to understand that.

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Re: Wolves vs LGDs: future of LGD breeds, what is best and why?

Postby Janet McNally » Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:47 pm

Muleflock wrote:What I find interesting is that wildlife management seems to be unwilling to accept the fact that hunting predators selects for ones that are fearful of humans and less likely to risk detection by humans and removes from the gene pool those that are willing to confront humans. It's not really rocket science to understand that.



Mark, I think few people understand this as much as farmers and ranchers who live and breath selection. And it goes beyond selection....there is learned behavior going on too, which was the case with the cougars in Boulder Co. and also the coyotes here in our back yard!

Janet
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Re: Wolves vs LGDs: future of LGD breeds, what is best and why?

Postby lambchop » Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:49 pm

Janet,

Great read! We are in the middle of budget talks to keep our trapping program and suggested the book to the county commissioners. Two han read it already! We got the money.

Paul
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Re: Wolves vs LGDs: future of LGD breeds, what is best and why?

Postby Lana Rowley » Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:56 pm

Paul, i hear our trapper was looking at places in Montana as they are trying to lure him away from us :(
Chuck has been here the last few days hunting turkey hill for a lamb killing yote.
Lana

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Re: Wolves vs LGDs: future of LGD breeds, what is best and why?

Postby lambchop » Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:45 pm

Lana,

He turned it down. We are working hard to get some reliable funding for the program. Met last night with ODFW and addressed their lack of financial support. Our state senator and a county commissioner were there along with Chuck. We may have made a little headway. If you have the time, go on line to the ODFW web site and comment on their need to support the trapping program. They are taking comments now in their budget process.

paul
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