Wanted- New stud ram

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woolpuller
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Postby woolpuller » Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:10 am

I know you directed to Janet>
Minimum amount of ewes AI'd to one ram to receive good results is 10. Naturally 15 will give you superb results
Australia and NZ are scrapie free. Majority of people darn there are not interested in scrapie codons. I sent semen in from the AU ram and it was AA/QR. To have semen into AU there governing group, AQIS, for some of the rules the animal must be QQ and at least 5 years old.
high performance, high health, high biosecurity, a truly closed Suffolk Flock

Janet McNally
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Postby Janet McNally » Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:36 am

Hi Wayne,

You are doing a great job with the record keeping. Only one thing I'd suggest but did not see you mention is rearing location. You need to indicate different groups. i.e. if you have a twin group and a single group, then be sure you indicate this with some kind of code in your records. I indicate each paddock that lambs are born in (and typically stay there for 30 days before being mixed together. So if you have different pens and the lamb stays there for more than a very short time, you want to record this. the purpose is so that Lambplan can sort out environmental differences (one pen of ewes might be getting slightly more hay, or might have more sunlight etc).

For AI, yes I would not fool around with anything short of laparascopy. There are a few people out there. I just used Martin Dally http://www.toprams.com/ and was happy working with him. I believe he has a page with the costs on it.

I see he has an interesting Corriedale ram in his catalog with some breeding values that look attractive but you need to find out how he currently stacks up...(EBVs change with time as new data enters the pool, the numbers quoted most likely are old).

One caution about ram semen in general, and performance testing... AU and NZ always use the birth year in the ID number, so make a note of the age of the ram. Rams that are a decade or more old are truly old news and are very unlikely to represent the current status of the breed in regards to performance testing.

I would recommend a minimum of 10 ewes, but the more the merrier as I think you start gambling with just odds when you do too few. The more you do, the more the results should average out. if I had a flock of 25, I'd do all of them. Also another consideration is just simply how much semen you might be required to order. Sometimes minimum order is 50 or 100 straws. All things considered (travel for tech etc) you will keep your costs per ewe down by AIing the most you can afford to do. However, having recently done 100 in one day, I would recommend no more than 50 in a day...I thought I'd never stand up straight again!

If possible, find a like minded breeder you can split the costs with.

Janet
Janet McNally
Tamarack Prolific and Ile de France crosses
Minnesota

WayneG
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Education Time

Postby WayneG » Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:52 pm

Janet and Woolpuller, thanks for all of your help so far- time for some more.

1. Without the semen or travel time for 10 ewes- I am looking at $665. That is what I can buy a ram for-and use him on all 30 ewes I have. If the ram's sire BV are decent- financially on the surface, I think buying is better vs AI, especially, because I can use the ram for more than one year. 30ewes x2 years = 60 lambings equals $11 per lambs plus feed etc. I don't think I can afford to AI- not that it wouldn't improve my flock-I can absolutely see the benefit to AI-


2. BV values the Strathborne ram from the top rams web site

Number of lambs born +.179- does this mean the ram will sire that many more lambs per ewe exposed or that his offspring will produce that many more lambs per lambing

WWt- weaning weight 7.37 does this mean his offspring will weigh 7.37 lbs more than a ram with a rating of zero? Can a ram have a rating of zero?

BV 200 days, +16.15. I assume this means lambs will weigh 16.15 more than? more than what.

BV 12month fleece +1.3- 1.3 lbs heavier than what?

Yearly fleece wt 18.4 I assume this is cut and dried that is what the grease fleece weighed.

Yield- 75.5% Please give the difinition, I don't want to assume I know yield

The gentleman back east has used a different strathborne ram than the one listed, (he did use top ram)can I assume that if one ram is in lambplan, than most if not all of there breeding stock is in lambplan. I may try to call him tommorrow to get more information from him.

I have found this very educational- However- I still have not received any responses to my first post of looking for a ram. I don't think I am being unreasonable- it sounds like both Janet and woolpuller and others could provide me more information that what I asked for in other breeds. In your alls opinion- am I looking in the wrong area, should I be advertising on a different site or what?
Wayne G
The Lord is my Shepard, I shall not want.

Janet McNally
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Postby Janet McNally » Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:34 pm

Hi Wayne,

what program are those breeding values coming from?

If they are from Lambplan, then here is what they would mean:

NLW of .179 means that the ram has a genetic superiority of .179 for number of lambs weaned. this means that if this ram was a female, he would stand a good chance that he would wean 17.9% more lambs than a ewe with an EBV of 0. Normally we would assume only the female can express this trait, so this would mean that his daughters would inherit 1/2 of that genetic superiority, but I am finding that number weaned is possibly also expressed by the male via increased survival of his offspring that he sires. So quick answer is that this means his daughters will inherit approx 9% superiority in number weaned from the sire, but it also could mean that this ram will sire lambs with a greater degree of livability.

weight EBVs are in kgs and reflect how many kgs of body weight or fleece weight above the base which is the flock average at the starting point. So yes, you have that exactly right (except for the pounds) that a ram with a weaning weight of 7.37 should weigh 7.37 more kgs than a ram with a ww EBV of 0.

bear in mind we are talking about just the genetic contribution when we project an animals performance with EBVs, so when you add environment back in, that changes actual performance...so do not go out and expect a ewe with a NLW will produce precisely 17.9 lambs more than a ewe with 0. It could so happen that the ewe with 0 actually raises more lambs in one year than the ewe with 17.9, but stick with it and you will find over time, the numbers don't lie.

You are right that buying a live ram is more economical than AI. so if you can find one with good numbers that would be my first choice. The advice about AI is simply a suggestion as to how you can find the genetics you are looking for if you could not find a breeder in the US that could supply a ram with the data you are seeking.

Sorry to hear you have had no replies. I am not familiar enough with the current status of the Corriedale breed to know if there are any US breeders out there serious about performance testing.

I do know Kelley O'Neill of Sheep Improvement Company once had a flock of corriedales. he is a performance oriented sheep breeder, although might not have data on all his ewes, but worth checking out.

Janet
Janet McNally

Tamarack Prolific and Ile de France crosses

Minnesota

WayneG
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Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: Dunbar, Nebraska

Postby WayneG » Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:00 pm

I honestly appreciate everyones input on this. In looking at Janet's and woolpuller's sites again, rereading all of these posts and reading my other post on OPP, I am still looking for a ram but it doesn't need to be RR. I would really like to AI everything- but I cannot cash flow it at this point. I would still like the weights, but in stealing a line from Bill's ad for a ram - I am looking for an OPP negative ram. I am still open to reply's, but I am going to be contacting the shepard back east about his OPP status. Thanks again for everyone's input.
Wayne G

The Lord is my Shepard, I shall not want.


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